What Nobody Tells You About Doing Business in China

You quit your job and came to China without knowing what you want to do here. >> Correct. >> You just knew you want to be here. For a lot of people, it's crazy. For me, it makes no sense to stay in Europe. >> After living here now for more than half a year, it's it's becoming harder and harder to think of uh missing all these things that make my life so convenient.

Right now >> the interesting thing is I have a lot of Chinese friends who said, "Oh, I would love to live in Germany because maybe it's too much for them. It's too intense." But for me, growing up in the countryside in Germany, it's like, "Oh, yeah. You can go. You can have my spot in Germany." >> For sure, 100%. >> Welcome to the Asia Bits podcast. And today is a special episode because we want to talk a little bit about our founder story and what made you move from Germany to China.

>> Yeah. Why I decided to come here and how the first months and weeks looked like when I came here. >> Yeah. There's everyone know that there's so much going on here in Asia when it comes to technology and innovation and this was also one of the reasons why we started the newsletter and this this podcast. So, if you want to know what's going on on technology innovation on a daily basis, subscribe to the newsletter, subscribe to this podcast, and give us a like. So, let's go.

[music] >> Michael, >> we have a very successful series on LinkedIn. We created it for you. What's the hook of this series? I quit my job in Germany and moved to China. [laughter] >> And I don't know why, but it somehow really resonates with the audience on LinkedIn, right? >> Yeah.

Especially now in this this year or like last two years basically everybody is keeping their eye on on China or in Asia in particular. >> Yeah. And it's crazy. I mean I've been living in China for 10 years now >> and it was very rocky way to go. So there was so much changes over the time like I got so much hate for just living in China and making videos about China, social media about China and now it really it is cool again to make content about China. Right.

>> Yeah. Especially I guess this year. Yeah. As I said last year, beginning with Deepseek, >> yeah, >> something just changed about the perception of how China is seen by the world. And after that also, China opened the visa policy, right? And then it's so it started to be become more like like a trend also for traveling.

So you like lots of travel videos on Instagram or on other social media were popping up like crazy. Everybody was just coming to China to just finally explore how China really is. Right. >> Yeah. And before co there's a huge difference in the tourists I see here. when uh our office is close to city center Nanzing East Road and before co it was just these travel groups of old American 60 plus people 20 30 of them coming there and now it's young couples it's backpackers coming to China >> yeah that's a lot and I've seen so many people just going viral posting about technology and everything that's going on here in China and then I was in in the tech industry as well.

So I was always curious like what is really going on. >> So it's not just a hook that we write. It's the truth. >> That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You quit your job and came to China >> You just knew you want to be here. >> Yeah. I actually had my first contact or what got in touch with China in I guess 200 17 or 18 >> when I came here the first time for like two weeks but it was mainly jumping from one factory to the other and one dinner to the other less talking about business rather eating and it it wasn't something like you really understand how the people live here but It's it was already a glimpse into what could business look like and it how different it was to compared to business doing business in in in Europe or in Germany. >> Yeah, it is for sure. And I was actually thinking of yeah what to do in the future like I was always I love living in in Shanghai. I love living in Asia in general because [clears throat] the food here, the people, the >> way they approach life.

Life is much more intensive in Asia. >> Oh, yeah. >> And this is maybe why the interesting thing is I have a lot of Chinese friends who said, "Oh, I would love to live in Germany." Because maybe it's too much for them. It's too intense. But for me, growing up in the countryside in Germany, it's like, "Oh, yeah, you can go. You can have my spot in Germany." >> For sure.

100%. Yeah. I would never going to go back. >> No. Are you You're never going to go back. >> No, I don't.

I I can't really think of like living in a in a countryside and >> Yeah. >> After living here now for like more than a more than half a year, it's of. uh missing all these things that make my life so convenient right now. >> For you, I don't I don't know. I I know you now for like six months and it still feels like you're exploring so much new every single day. Even though you live here or in Shanghai for 10 years, right?

>> It's still like I don't know whenever you cross the street, you see something new. Yeah. >> And it feel I can really feel it in you as well like that this is something that you didn't expect. >> Even though you know China speed, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And for me it makes so much sense that you say I quit my job in Germany and moved to China, but for a lot of people it's crazy. For me it's it makes no sense to stay in Europe, you know, and everyone I have to say everyone I talk to, not just people in in China, people in Asia, they say like Europe is done. There's no hope. Yeah. We don't have to we don't want to black paint it too much. There's still great people in Europe and >> a lot of going on.

We have a startup community in in Europe also. But the all in all the big picture here in Asia, it's just like for me the most amazing continent to to live in. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm coming from an entrepreneurial family myself. So I know also a lot of entrepreneurs in Germany and it's it's becoming harder and harder for a small company to survive.

That's why >> I wanted to see how actually the whole startup ecosystem works here in Asia. And I was I was traveling whenever I had the chance to go on vacation. I would always choose Asia um over going somewhere in Europe because everything is so so similar to what I've known, right? >> So I was always coming here to to to the Asian countries and it was always fascinating to me like how how close all these countries are here together but how different they are which is I don't know something that is very unique in in Asia. And I posted quite viral LinkedIn article earlier this year with the headline, we are living in the Asian century and Europe is still ignoring it. >> And this also resonated very much with my my bubble mainly because my bubble maybe lives lives in Asia but also a lot of people who are like second grade connections or third grade connections.

uh because the biggest problem is that there's so much happening in Asia whether it's China, Vietnam now or South Korea, Japan maybe maybe not so much they're a little bit stuck but there's so much happening and nobody in Europe knows about it. >> And if you say nobody it's exaggerated but it feels like and it's not that they don't know they are not even interested. They're not even curious what's happening here. >> Yeah, true. Most of my my friends, they don't really ask what I'm actually doing here. Like they're not really interested.

As you said, that's that's a sad thing. >> And it's suicide, you know. True. It's like it's it's like from from a business point of view, it's suicide. You have to know what's going on here. >> Yeah.

For me it was so hard when after like this deep sea shock went like viral in the media also because this was something that they can't really put down right what is actually happening here and when people things started to move into China right also with the trade war China got a lot of attention um it was still super hard to get real information about what are the companies doing here how are they doing it and Why do they s succeed? What is the big difference between companies in Asia? And what do they so different that >> you I mean we have this growth GDP growth still at at a high level like 5% every year. There is >> high growth still here in in China. Um while >> this is not the case in Europe. >> Yeah.

So it was very hard to keep up with the media or like to understand what are Asian people doing differently. >> Yeah. And the problem as I said like in in Europe and we Germans so we can say it about Germany it's like we are so Germany so eurosentric that we think we are the n of the well of the of the nab devel as we say in German. So we think we are the center of the universe. But then you go to Asia and then you see like deepseek. It's not just deepseek.

It's the e-commerce. When you talk about live streaming, when you talk about logistics, how they do it here in Asia, >> supply chain is crazy. >> Supply chain, it's unbelievable. like we did uh um live streaming and with Tik Tok in Germany because they started doing this live shopping and for here it's it's so normal that you sell on social media. We have this big I also do these keynotes and workshops on social commerce in China. It's so common here and then you go to Germany and we did this live streaming booth and all the people passing by they say it's so crazy.

So they're selling like [laughter] uh products live on on Tik Tok and then you go cars >> right EVs >> it's like after co all the car the German car brand CEO they came and say oh wow in two years they overpassed us >> BYD became a name >> yeah and this is not the peak this is just the beginning >> yeah and it's moving crazy fast >> yeah [laughter] so when we see what's what's happening here. We like as you said like I've been living here for 10 years but I'm astonished every day on the speed that is happening and even like now that I do research about technology and innovation every day it's so crazy if you see like the the the numbers um what the the governments the banks the companies invest in future technologies here as a German we have to be ashamed And actually what is what is the most crucial part about is that they have a certain plan how they execute. >> So as a citizen in Asia, you can actually be sure that something in the background like something is is structured. It has a some certain plan and >> that's why they you know exe execute fast because they split down whatever they have in like a five term five year goal they split it down into different industries and then they just execute and support businesses small entrepreneurs like entrepreneurs solo solar entrepreneurs they create this whole ecosystem so that people actually have the chance to contribute to the growth And it's not just China. China is a big player, right? And China gets a lot of attention also from the media because they love this China versus US story.

But when we look at South Korea, we wrote about it last week, right? South Korea, they have actually they actually have the AI battle plan. >> They want to become one of the world's leading AI nations. And they get all the players on board. They have the laws, they do the infrastructure, they even do the schools, >> right? Yeah.

Yeah. They incorporate like future technologies, how to leverage basically the technology that you have right now, the access to it. They give provide access to the people so that they can execute faster, iterate over certain things in a very high speed and get [ __ ] done. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then we were we were talking about this.

I I heard about this in the news. The German government they are investing a ridiculous low number. It was like >> 18 >> 18 billion US or euros 18 billion eur euros over five years in six fields. >> Yeah. So it's $3 billion US for AI in five years. While the players like Samsung or also the US players, they will invest in the next year hundreds >> 500 billion.

[snorts] >> Hundreds of billions. [laughter] >> Which is crazy. And then I read about this also the German government also has like this um delegation or whatever. They have this circle discussion circle where they will discuss and they will view they will take a look at the world what they're doing and then they will develop some recommendations what to do and here we see like the last couple of year every government in this region is setting up funds for AI together with banks together with universities and together with companies so they can work together and and develop it. Yeah, that's why like after I came here was it becoming so clear to me that I have to stay here. I wanted like actually I wanted to come here just to explore how it might be.

So I just wanted to take like maybe one year off and just see in between switching jobs like how like I wanted to understand the market dynamics what is really going on and then see but then yeah China speed hit I guess. China speed. So we met in an elevator and then you told me about the tool you built for yourself where you stay up to date on what's going on >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because I said there was not like no clear media that was nonbiased because it's a big problem also like they don't really report about the stuff that is actually going on here or only on a on a surface level >> or the stuff you are interested in.

They report about about politics and and all a lot about about war. >> Like, you know, defense, whatever. >> Oh, yeah. German German media loves this war rhetoric. Maybe it's our history. We love wars.

[laughter] >> Yeah. [gasps] So, that's why that's that's why I wanted to like see if I can find something or at least information that would keep me up to date, right? But it was super hard. So I went on LinkedIn and like I was I was following those guys who were talking about like what is going on in Asia, what is going on in China and I found some local newspapers also on the on the internet where I could use the information that would be interesting for me like technology, AI, finance related information, right? News. So I wanted to gather all these information, filter what is important for me or interesting to me and then summarize it because I didn't want to spend like half of my day reading through all these news.

So that was the initial initial goal just to keep myself updated when I'm here trying to network with people attending meetings and then having something to talk about that is interesting to myself right for me. >> And then we met and you you you told me about this tool you built for yourself. So it was practically newsletter you built for yourself right? >> Correct. It was basically scraping automatically those sources I just mentioned and then summarizing it and send it to myself my my own inbox every morning so that I can just read through it whenever I wake up read through it and oh maybe I intend some AI meetings in the afternoon or whatever in in the weekend so I have something >> at least to talk about right >> and I've been in the media business for for 10 years also so I had friends from Germany after co coming to China for the first time and they were investors and they they were investing in they are investing in future technologies so in in drones low altitude economy >> AI and so on and they said there is a very very obvious shift happening that before they were just investing in the US and then they started seeing competition coming out of China and then they started okay thinking maybe we also should invest in China and then they did and and then this investor friend he told me that >> Thomas there's so much happening here but we don't know anything you have to write something because you are on the ground and being on the ground is so important right right now we're here in Shenzhen so Shenzhen is two flight hours from Shanghai and the atmosphere here is so different >> it's a completely different world yeah it's completely different to Shanghai >> so one lessons we have to say to our listeners us is if you see the China experts in in Germany or wherever in the rest of the world, just delete them. Block them.

Don't listen to them. Like I see I see so much BS about what what people on LinkedIn write about what's happening in Asia, it's unbelievable. Unbelievable. >> So if if there if you see like a China expert in in somebody's biography, just >> did you print uh your name card? You have a print card ready. So [laughter] also like people say like oh the most important thing about doing business is China like how you hand the business card to people like this is like maybe 25 years ago.

>> Yeah 100%. Yeah >> but people still pay pay a lot of money for these experts >> and then we decided to we want to change that. >> There's a problem. The problem is so much happening here in Asia when it people in the west don't know about it. >> Yes. >> So we want to change it.

Correct. So, we met in the elevator, >> went to the gym. >> Went to the gym. I pitched my It was not really an idea. I I didn't had a mind creating a business out of it. It was just >> just for me because there was a problem that I couldn't keep up with what is happening right now.

So, I wanted to have some filtered view on what actually matters to me and maybe also to the rest of my bubble. Yeah. >> Um, >> so I wanted to change that. I pitched the idea idea to you and you'd said, "Oh, >> great. Let's do it." >> It's a great idea. I just had the discussion with the investor last week.

>> Can we do it for for a bigger audience? Because you were in the media. I didn't know you. So, I was like, "Okay, yeah, why not? Let's try it. I don't know." >> Yeah.

And I remember like one question I asked asked you was, "How fast can we start?" >> True. >> Because I hate this talking. Yeah, >> I had I I met so many people in my life who came to me because I know I've been doing social media for a long time and said, "Oh, I I always want to do it." I always said, "Then just do it." >> So, I I hate it like, "Oh, I I want to plan. I need to buy a camera." Whatever. Nobody needs a camera. Everyone has a phone.

You You have internet. The only two things you need. >> You go on your phone, you you film a video, you put it online. >> So, that's why I I didn't I didn't know you either. So how fast can we start? And then like two weeks later we registered the company.

>> Yeah, it was that easy. >> Yeah, it is. It is easy. >> Yeah, actually it is just an easy easy thing. If you just commit to something >> execute, do it and then on the way you will improve naturally. It's just, you know, find a way to just start.

>> Yeah. And also like on the way now we met friends here who came to China from the US for example and they saw what's going on here and they said okay they just stayed here and they said they started their own company. >> Yeah >> and they they do like really really highass business or it's robotics right >> so it is possible >> you just have to do it. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I agree. >> But still sometimes it's quite frustrating.

>> Being [laughter] an entrepreneur is not that easy. But the good thing is like you also know like you have been working out for example for 15 years, right? >> So that's why we always say >> it is just like going to the gym. It's always ups and downs. Sometimes your weight goes up, sometime your weight goes down. But in the end, you know, you will just keep on do doing it.

you know, I lost 60 kilos and I know like sometimes you're not in the mood to go to the to the gym. You you maybe you gain some weight, gain some fat, but you know, you will never go back. >> Yeah. Yeah. I als I also always try to compare it with uh my whole gym journey. I mean I started the business also in 2017 19 uh myself uh that was when I came the first time to China and also my family background is in the same like they all they are entrepreneurs so I knew I wanted to build something my own and just like going to the gym I knew it's not happening overnight and if it's happening overnight it's just >> maybe quick money and you don't know how to how to deal with it right so you have to have some long-term vision, long-term goal and then just trust the process process.

Yeah. And our long-term vision is to live in a world where knowledge, global knowledge flows without borders. >> This is what we want. So what we can do is like we on the ground, we live in China. We travel a lot to to the other countries around China. And what we want to know, we want to find the experts, people on the ground, authentic people, people who know what's happening and who don't just like want to tell you something to sound smart, right?

So that's that's why we everything we write, we just >> try to write it in a way or like doing this podcast that we would talk with a friend, right? So >> not too formal otherwise it's just something that's very hard to to digest right it should be >> easy like we're not here to say okay like I mean we are some sort of bias in in a way that >> we decided to come here and we obviously prefer living here but it's not >> that we wanted to say that everything that has happened here is better right it's just >> as you said it's the suicide you don't you should not ignore or what is happening in Asia. >> Yeah. Like I always want people to to let them know they don't have to become China fanboys. Correct. >> Like like I am I love to live here and it's a great life.

But you cannot ignore China. >> You you it's it's you don't have to love it, but you have to understand what's going on here because there's no single future problem that we can solve without the Asian countries. >> I truly believe that. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm here >> and and all the like the technology and innovation is happening and and when we look at consumption power for example >> so the consumption power is also rising so high so if you're a brand or if you're an investor if you're a political organization you really have to understand and and this once again going back to Germany I really cannot understand why there's such a big ignorance in Germany when it comes to China like the the our German Chancellor hasn't even been here since he he took office.

>> Yeah, that's that's that's a problem because most of the time I I go back now and I'm be asked like aren't you afraid? I was like why why why would I be afraid? Yeah, because they what they're using with your data like there are so many cameras and >> Yeah. So what are you choosing like why should I be be afraid? Is it because they I want to commit some crime or something in China or what should I be afraid of that they're watching me? >> Um >> except that I feel safe >> like super safe here.

I can literally like >> go out to a cafe, leave my laptop there, go to wherever I want and come back for like an hour later and it's still there. Nobody would even touch it. So it's sometime sometimes like very I I can't understand why they still think this way. >> Yeah. And one big difference I find here in China is that Chinese people are so curious when they see me >> and I I I take a taxi for example and every time they will ask me so where are you from? Then I say Germany and say oh yeah Germany great country.

They used to say that. So this changed a little bit. It's [laughter] the um they they just they will ask questions about Germany. How's life in Germany? Is it safe? What about the refugees?

They love to talk about this topic, Chinese taxi driver. >> Well, even even yesterday I I was thinking about when we went to to the restaurant and uh yeah, we we were sitting outside outside and had the talk in in in Chinese with our um guests, right? >> Yeah. And there was this guy standing next to us just listening >> to what you were saying that you were so fluent fluently speaking Chinese. >> He was fascinated. >> And they are always like this.

And it's >> sometimes I feel like it's it's still for you even though that you're very used to it because you went to so many places in China, right? that you still find joy that people are really interested and they are very curious about you and they are so fascinated that you speak the language. >> That would never happen in German like >> irritatefully even I would say. >> Yeah. If there's like a Chinese people like a Chinese person talking fluent German in in in Germany or in the west it would like >> Yeah. That's okay.

>> Oh yeah. It's okay. and and and also like the curiosity. It's like this is one big one big difference and they really enjoy it here. So in in Germany as you said like I've been living in China for 10 years every time I come back and people there even like some people just saying it bluntly in my face I would never go to China to visit you like what the heck like why why would you even say that right? And then all the like everyone I do a lot of workshops on um on business in China, e-commerce, social media in China.

And then we have this delegations. It's like business people, politicians coming here. I will always ask them a question. So what what is your impression of China or what do you think of China? And every single one of them will say it's so different to what I imagined. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And they have this imagination in their mind because if you just read the western media you would think like >> yeah now you see only this trade war right. So they're in between or at least I feel like in between some something that they cannot even choose. So there's the US obviously trying to incorporate all these tariffs right and then China. So there's a big fight, let's say, between these nations and yeah, I feel it feels like Germany or even Europe is sitting in between. They don't really know which side to choose.

So they rather let the others fight and watch. But here here's also one thing that I that really surprised me when I started doing the research for when it comes to technology innovation and business here. There is no war going on in this. This is something that the media wants you to believe that they hate each other. Chinese people hate American people. American people hate Chinese people.

But here we see American founders, startup founders from the Bay Area, from Silicon Valley coming here and seeing, wow, it's crazy what's going on here. So what they do, they take the best things from both countries, the software, the drive, the motivation, the people, the education from the US. Then they put it together with the Chinese speed, Chinese hardware, the Chinese ecosystem, and they build great products that actually can change the world. >> Yeah, it's something that happens underneath all these headlines that you read. So this is what we want to try to discover and and show show to the world. So there's much more cooperation or for example Fizer we wrote about like FISA buying Chinese medicine technology or then in in medicine and in technology like cancer research there's there's so much cooperation between the US and China right like Stanford or Harvard professors investing in AI startups in China because they have the knowledge they have the research and the AI technology from China can help them to scale much faster.

Yeah, most of the Chinese startups also their goal is also to IPO in the US because they need global capital. C capital is still available in the US. They have most of the companies here they they have obviously like a domestic strategy how to achieve a certain market share in this market but most of them they still choose to have like when they found a company to have a global strategy and this always includes that they will go to the NASDAQ ultimately or like any other market outside of China. So it's not that most of the companies are just looking at the domestic market. They are willing to move abroad and most of the time actually they choose the US. >> And when [snorts] you when you look at these the media articles when it's always black and white these stories are so hard for them to put into their frame of black and white, you know.

So why why would >> American founders go to China or why do Chinese people still like America? Yeah, >> because this is life. Life is gray, right? Life is not black and white. But it's so surprising for a lot of of media and a lot of people. So what what we really want to do is to show that there are so many shades of gray here and all over the world.

And most of the people they they just want to live their normal lives. They want to have sustainable income. They want to be healthy. And they don't want to be part of this big war picture. Yeah. And also develop in a way that they develop themselves, develop the business, they have to grow, right?

So >> how would you grow if you always stay in in one market in in in your comfort zone? It was the same for me like I felt stuck somehow there was no perspective for me. So I was like okay I have to do some sort and action because it's very easy to complain all the time like you know and not doing anything and then sometimes you have to choose some like harder or to to do some harder decisions basically. Um >> but in the end it turns out it's not actually not that hard. >> It's not that hard. It's actually it's also not hard to come to China.

>> No. >> Right. So >> I felt very well welcome. welcoming when I when I came here like the people actually wanted to help. It was so easy for me to network here. >> I neverworked in in in Germany.

I was living in in Hamburg for 5 years and it was very hard for me to find even like Hamburg friends or create a network. And now after 6 months being here [laughter] I have a very very huge huge network. I wouldn't have imagined before I come before coming here. >> And we have like these are like high quality high-profile people. >> Oh yeah. >> You can meet here.

>> And the thing I found out is that the people it's because maybe we all don't live in the in our home countries. We all maybe need someone to support us somehow or we all have the same feeling that we are strangers here, right? >> Yeah. So we made this networking dinner last week and it was very spontaneous and it was like 10 people like creative directors from from Disney then we have like startup founders we have a head of HR for from a German company and it's like unbelievable how willing everyone is to >> support each other to support each other >> support right even when I when I reached out to the people on LinkedIn I had no reach before I came here like I have like I don't 400 something contacts or whatever. But I reached out to the people and telling them a story that I'm going to move or at least trying to explore the market >> and they were actually very happy to hear about it. >> So they wanted to share their contacts with me.

So even though they don't know me or they eventually never have any mutual benefits or benefit from them for themselves giving me their contact they were actually willing to do so and they were so kind and that was something I wasn't really expecting and when I started with this it just kicked off and yeah one contact led to the other then attending the networking events because there like in Shanghai there's basically everyday one >> so [laughter] you can you can basically go to all these networking events and in a very short time you met meet so many good people that really want to help because they are curious, they like what you do, they support your vision and they are in the same seat. Yeah. And people are just generous. Yeah. This is not something I mean I've never been in a startup circle or like big in networking in Germany but this for me it's like unbelievable and I'm so grateful because you can meet people and you know they're genuinely willing to help you to succeed. I have a lot of friends.

We're in a similar business, but we haven't done any business for eight years. >> And then after in year nine, we found out, oh, okay, so maybe there's an opportunity we can work together. But we're friends first, >> right? And this is what what I really love. So you quit your job in in Germany and moved to China. How do you feel about it now?

6 months. >> Yeah. Everything moves so fast. um something I didn't as I said I didn't really expect to be here after such a short time having like like a clear company structure also still it's it's a it's a journey like I I love it and I love the food everything is so convenient here especially living in Shanghai which is why I really like this this whole environment to be there as an entrepreneur because you and really focus on the things that are super important for you and your business in order to develop yourself because most of the annoying tasks there's a service for this >> which is very convenient. Um yeah, >> I mean we also have to say this is because there are so many people in China and such >> high competition for a lot of people the salary salary is quite low and although there's competition in for example delivery like the big companies are fighting against each other which mean that we as a consumer can have very cheap delivery food right correct >> because they're burning a lot of money but yeah this is this is how life is right there's I think in in China for sure you can still have the the American dream in China. So you >> and people here that are really working so hard because they have to and this is also what keeps the country running.

I guess there's not no such thing. I mean there is I met a lot of people they have work life balance and home office and all this kind of stuff but it's it didn't really take over so that it's becoming a absolutely crucial requirement for all the companies in order to hire good talents that you offer like everything giving their whole freedom because here they really have to work they have to get things done and this is something that I guess is like a very important engine to keep this country running. >> Yeah. And it's a big difference to let's say India for example. So the I went to India and and I have to say the sad thing I saw there but I also have to say it was 2010 when I went there but I traveled through the country and then I saw like in a lot of villages a lot of places you go there are men in the same age like us just sitting in the street the whole day >> not doing anything. >> Yeah.

You know this is because of the societal structure in India also a big problem but there's so much resources so much workforce that is unused and this is not not the case in China like everyone is working so hard right and uh >> especially here in Shenzhen >> especially in Shenzhen right this is too much so I'm a big fan of work hard play hard so you you still should enjoy your life but I also think that it's coming like people are also realizing that it's also important to do fitness >> to go out to the park go hiking or whatever >> even though the trend is not yet here >> it's not yet here but it will come like for everyone who's interested in the fitness industry in the outdoor industry in the health industry China is a huge market >> there's so much potential definitely if you copy whatever is working in the west basically >> it eventually will clear and then you have a big big market. >> Yeah. Podcast for example the thing in the west already I don't know like 10 15 years >> huge thing in the west and we're talking to platforms they were saying starting from next year they will start doing it. So building the the bridge or doing the business between the two worlds. It's really interesting because there are so many things that are much more advanced in China that you could bring to the west and then the other way around. some trends, some things that that are very popular in the west, they will come to China.

But this means that you have to understand both of the worlds. >> Yeah. Finding partners who are on the ground, talking to them who are actually >> And not the ones who used to be here 20 years ago. >> Stay away from the China experts. I have to say it again. I I get so triggered by these people on LinkedIn who post who post the China expertise.

It's even it's not enough to come to China once a year. I mean it's a [clears throat] good thing to to get um >> to get um idea get an idea what's happening here right but then also choose wisely with whom you come here because we see this delegations and then they will bring people >> by store >> to the BYD store in a random shopping mall >> and then people say wow they're so great they pay like thousands of dollars for them >> this I don't know >> yeah so our idea is that sooner or later we should do a good delegation because also like we started doing our projects in Shinjzhen maybe a month ago, right? Or the first time the first time we came here was a month ago >> but it was for a complete different >> for something completely different and now like in one one month the people we met it's unbelievable. >> Yeah, >> it's unbelievable. the young founders, the the very established professors, the uh accelerators, universities. >> Yeah.

And the insights that they give you, like what they share with you is actually so valuable that I don't know it's it's also very hard for us. >> Like the moment we started, so many people were reaching out to us and having so many good ideas. They have like such a great network that they are willing to share with you and that you're like what what am I going to do with all this? >> Yeah. How do I structure myself and my company that I'm not going into a completely wrong direction? It's so easy to lose track especially if you have so many opportunities.

>> Yeah. For me, the biggest risk is that I will die of a caffeine caffeine overdose because so many people want to drink coffee with me in exchange that [gasps] like it's crazy like you really have to filter out who you can meet in because we still have to build a business >> and we're trying to build a team. >> We're trying we are a startup so this is really it becomes a luxury pro problem, >> So you you were doing social media for 10 years, right? But it was all always centered around you as a person. >> Yeah. Not a very healthy business model.

>> Yeah. So, how does this like how do you see building now a pro like a like a product and also a company that is not only you as a person? Oh, it is much more rewarding but much more frustrating also [laughter] because with with social media most of it is you're at the right place at the right time and you you make a video and then people like it. So it's like very easy to scale, right? You just have to stick on it and you if you're creative in a way and you have like the the German endurance then it's very easy to succeed. So, and this was also part of yeah, it worked really well for me.

But from a business perspective, it's not very healthy. If I would be an investor, never invest in social media personalities because then there's one [ __ ] storm and I had a lot of [ __ ] storms >> and then you're gone, right? >> So, for for me, this is really new experience, >> but I enjoy every moment of it. Even the frustrating moments then when sometimes you think you go like two steps ahead and then you go five step backwards. >> Yeah. You have a good run right until the end of the week and then on Friday something's happening and you feel like what I have to start all over again or at least it feels like but then you look back >> and we can look back only on a very short time and you feel like oh wow.

>> So the worst thing for me is to think oh I have to do everything on my own. It's very hard to to find good people but I think this is something everyone struggles with and in the end we are the founders >> of this this company and we always will be the ones who will be responsible for for it and they will nobody will like help you >> save [snorts] you >> or save you. Yeah. Nobody will save you. >> And and let's go go back to fitness. It's the same.

It's like you just have to go to the gym. You have to show up and then you will lose weight. you eat clean and then then it works and there don't wait for anyone to save you. >> It it works and it's actually also so easy like most of the people also ask me like how do I get like a good buddy? I >> I don't know >> find it out yourself. You have to try.

>> Everybody is completely different. It's there's no secret or something. The secret is stick to it, do it and go. Then either you eat a lot or eat more than you burn and you gain weight or you eat less than you burn and you lose weight. That's like this is so simple. Just execute it.

Stick to your long term or like your goal even if it's shortterm. I mean there's also some something that you can achieve, right? But in the end it's just like don't lose focus. Find your direction. >> Either it's grow like gaining or losing something. It's that easy.

Just do it. So, this is something we try to adapt on our business as well, right? We we see the long-term goal. We have our picture. We have our clear vision. And it's something that you don't achieve overnight.

>> No. No. And we try a lot of stuff like the same like in the gym you try a lot of >> we see so many fancy fancy exercises on Instagram like people who have like a great shape or whatever maybe doing something >> uh illegal but then pretending that everything is super natural and then showing some fancy exercises. Everybody's trying to find the right exercise. That's it. That's the one that uh gives me change changes my physique overnight.

Tomorrow I'll be looking very like perfect. >> It's there's no hack. There's no hack. >> The one hack we have it's like that we do it in Asia and I'm I'm very happy like it's not not just the work environment but it's as you said the food is amazing. the price value. I mean in the US you also have really good food, right?

Because American people very obviously love love to eat >> but the price you have here it's like the cost of living. It's >> prices and variety is more important right doesn't get boring. >> No just today for lunch we just went out and found a random restaurant and it was amazing. Beijing duck. That's something that you would pay for so much. Like it would be like super, >> how do you say would be like a super exciting date that you would would would have right in uh anywhere else >> for us.

It was a work lunch. >> It was it was a work lunch. Yeah. >> And we paid $15 per person. >> Wow. >> For it.

[laughter] This is so crazy. Yeah. So, we're very excited about this. This is just the beginning. We have so many crazy guests, people who share their stories with us. It's like for me it's always mindblowing [snorts] what's happening here and the speed that things >> very good timing right now also like people are really willing to build something.

There are good people here >> exceptional minds. They have uh >> such a great background also and especially their network is impressive because as we said they are really willing to share their networks with with each other and yeah and that's why we both decided to do this podcast in English even if like our Germans accent like mine mine for for sure is very strong and it's just very simple English we can use but we really want to reach a lot of people because people have to know what's going on. And also our guests are there saying the same for some Chinese entrepreneurs it's very hard to express themselves in English but but they do and I think it's beautiful like they do a great job. >> They do a great job and I found out like people in the US for they are very tolerant and very open because it's a country where [clears throat] a lot of foreigners live whose native language is not English and they are very open to it. the most judgy people are the Chinese and the Germans talking about other Germans uh English. So yeah, I'm I'm very excited and >> yeah, me too.

Just like like we said, we just wanted to start even though it's not perfect or it's it's never it would never be perfect. So we just want to make it authentic as possible, right? >> Yeah. with one vision like to let people in the west know what's going on in Asia make them give them an impression on how our lives are here how business is here for investors if they want to invest money here people who want to do business here and yeah so one goal is to bring the people together help them do good business make money and improve this world >> exactly just like most of the founders we interviewed and now said to us like the most valuable thing is bring people together, make them happy and then solve their problems. It's not like about I want to be crazy rich. >> Um but in the end if you serve >> people's problems or solve people's problems then >> you're creating a better world and we want to be part of that.

want to give them the stage to actually tell the people out there what is what are they doing like what is the next I don't know rocket that is coming up from China or even like not only from China from Asia >> and this is actually what quite a few people said to me like the first one was my investor friend from Germany he said I want you to show me the next deepseek >> and then yesterday people said oh maybe in your podcast we will find the next Elon Musk. >> Right. >> You never know. >> So, you never know. It's all young people, all very, very innovative people and very hardworking people. And I'm sure with all the friends we make sooner or later, we will see the next Elon Musk, the next genius here from China, from Asia, from from different countries, different places here.

>> Yeah. And then we have them on our WeChat. >> Yeah. Then we are good friends. >> We don't need their business card, right? We don't need the business card.

>> Count it over with two hands. [laughter] >> Yeah. So, last time stay away from the China experts. Okay. Very looking forward. >> Yeah.

Me, too. >> Where this journey is going. >> Yep.